Cashout Transparency (and ideally better value)

Right now, the cashout function has such bad value that it’s pointless. As an example, if the odds change in my favor prior to a match beginning, the cashout value (in my experience) always remains fixed at the bet value). However, it’s very frequent that the cashout value goes down if there’s a slightest dip in the odds prior to the start of the match. As far as I know, there’s nowhere where it’s documented how they create these new values. At the very least it would be nice to get some transparency on this.

In addition, the values themselves are laughably low. For example: I’ll often find that the implied odds of winning (given the current line) multiplied by the bet value comes out to somewhere in the range of 150% of the cashout value. I understand a small house edge here, but if I place a $100 bet at even odds and it goes to +200, the cashout value at that point will land somewhere around $40-50, despite the bet having an EV of ~$67. It doesn’t take a seasoned bettor to take one look at that and realize it’s a total scam.

My actual suggestion: cashout value = (payout value)(current implied odds) - some small percentage. Could be 2% or something. Simple, easy, transparent, something that people would use and feel good about and understand how it works. The way it is now is a greedy money grab and the players have no clue where the numbers are coming from. I would expect with the current system it is infrequently used at best.

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As an example to demonstrate the first point made:

I placed a small baseball parlay on COL and TEX for tonight 9/7. When I placed the bet, the odds for COL were +190 and TEX were +143. $5.50 parlay to win $33.26 (implied odds of 14.19%).

Currently, the odds for COL have decreased to +195, and the odds for TEX have increased to +141. Implied odds are now 14.07%, a decrease of 0.85% relative to the original. The cashout value has decreased by $0.32 to $5.18, a decrease of 5.8%. I would be giving up an astounding 5% of value if I cashed this bet out right now, several hours before the games will even start. How is this possibly calculated?

they also need to fix live betting. If im betting something at even odds and the odds change to -150, the bet doesn’t go through. If the odds are even and then change to +150 while placing the bet, it goes through every time. IMO both wagers should not go through if they want to be fair but seems like they’re ok giving you worse odds

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Exactly. That happens to me all the time. I can almost predict when my bet is going to go through and when it won’t. I wish it was instant…as soon as you click place bet it should go through at whatever line you selected.

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@TheGreedyFish Were you looking for both what the calculation is now and that changes should be made to them?

This has been brought up many times but Bovada turns a blind eye and never directly answers the reasoning behind this

@Kennyb323 @lensmachamp we did answer that in the past here

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Thanks @Matty_Bovada, unfortunately nothing has been done since that response in Jan to at least make it more even for us players.

Yes - a) I legitimately have no clue how the numbers are calculated. And b) it would be a nice feature to have and be able to use. In its current form it is not that.

As it relates to the cash out option, don’t list games with cash out option when you don’t even offer the ability to cash out at any point. For example, I had a nice parlay below for a significant amount (4 figures) and at halftime, 4 of the 7 legs had already cashed and all three pending were in good condition to cash but at no point in time did I have the ability to cash out for a lesser amount. I would’ve gladly taken a smaller amount to secure some winnings but wasn’t presented with the option.

The cashout feature when available should use the following formula I believe:

using decimal odds we’ll go with the odds at placement / current odds X risk amount = payout amount

I absolutely agree that it should. If you are claiming that it does, I have never seen a bet where this is the case.

We will be double checking and circle back

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This was never addressed which I wasn’t surprised by but it is disappointing

I understand your concern however we have yet to receive an update once we are provided with an update we will share.

Please Matty, never say circle back again. I don’t want to have start calling you Jen.

In case you don’t know who she is, she’s the USA’s current Presidents Press Secretary and she avoids questions like the plague. She ALWAYS says, I’ll have to circle back with you and never does.

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I would like to add regarding betting live, I agree that a change needs made to how it’s currently set up. There’s nothing worse than trying to get into a number and seeing it go higher example +150 to +180 and seeing it on the screen for seconds at +180 and you get +150. It never works the other way, example betting -110 and it goes to -130, you never get the benefit but always get penalized.

While you may come back and say it’s for security measures, I have a hard time with that because if someone has a history of betting in a range saying $100 to $500 on live play and all of a sudden bets $8,000, then sure that could be a shot being taken or someone really wants that wager. When we’re talking a line moving 20-40 cents, that’s not a huge move as say going from -150 to -400.

The key to fixing all of this is quite simple. Have the accept all changes button added, then the bettor can only blame themselves for not getting the number they tried to get.

The house can’t have it both ways, where they always benefit and the player doesn’t with the odds change. We aren’t talking life changing money here and I’ll add another layer to this whole conversation… You already have the advantage of the score changing before the bettors see it on TV. I always joke with people that I can guarantee if the guy makes the next free throw, you have it before we see it on TV due to the delay in transmission. It would be extremely hard to beat the live lines out of a major line change unless the house made an error… Even then the house uses the rules against the player in this situation and refunds the bet.

Take no offense, this is all a great conversation but in the end, if the house does nothing to improve the situation, which they haven’t. Then the players need to make a decision to continue to play under the circumstances or not play at all.

As players we will never get tilted our way and it’s been that way since the inception of betting and the vig put in play. You have to find a different edge if the one you think you have isn’t working and it’s quite clear you have no edge on live lines ever… It’s offered for a reason and it’s not to have you make money but for the house to make it.

Good Luck on your wagers…

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Yep. Thats why youre better off not cashing out and instead just hedging

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Honestly as soon as you hit bet the line should lock there for you and the bet should be accepted . The only reasom the site takess 5 plus seconds to process a bet is so thet can void it if the line moves in the players favor . You know this because if you live bet at halftime or at a break the bet is accepted instantaneously and ( as you stated ) it moves towards the house they accept the wager as well

No reason there needs to be a 5-10 second processing lag ever

I agree with you on this. Live betting is a great tool if you can use it properly and have it seamlessly.

Unfortunately, I haven’t come across any site where there isnt a slight lag. I don’t know if it has to do with so many games taking place and someone is manually approving the bets. I can’t see someone manually changing the odds, that has to be done with automation based on score/time.

I remember a great set up WSEX offered. They have been out of business for years, but their version of live betting was buying shares of the team for x price and you could buy and sell during the game. Mind you they had the option to stop trading at any time, but they didn’t pull that stunt. If they had it 98, it was all you could eat. Payout was either 100 or 0 at the end. You’re side won you got 100 per share, if it lost you got $0. That was an awesome set up because they had golf that way and games were up all week long. I miss that set up.

I don’t know if the mods will be able to share how the set up works here in full but I am sure they will take the feedback once again and in 8 months someone will bring it up again.